Need some help

Go here for help using this forum.

Moderators: 89ARIES, Webmaster

Need some help

Postby cald600 » Mon May 15, 2017 2:40 am

Hello I am new to this site so thanks everyone ahead of time for taking time to answer my questions. I have a 85 Dodge 600 convertible, 2.2L I bought it and it just has been giving me fits and I am at my wits end :x . It runs with quite a lot of vibration and missing, while driving once it warms up it just shuts off like I turned the key off. When I try and start it, it does start but its a hard start. Here is what I have done so far...
I have replaced the fuel pump, MAP sensor, Control module, it has new distributor, wires, plugs, and coil, I took off throttle body and cleaned it, and checked the timing, and still no good.
The only thing that did get fixed, was before I changed control module the car would stall and fuel pump would not run ( which lead me to believe it was the fuel pump in the first place). I come to find out that it was good but if I disconnected the battery it would kind of reset the system and the fuel pump would start working again. Now I just have the stalling problem still, but only if its been running for a few minutes and gets up to temperature.
Well I have read a few post and there seems to be a lot of knowledge here any help is greatly appreciated.
thanks
cald600
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:51 am
Car Information: D600 convertable

Re: Need some help

Postby Kwagon2 » Tue May 16, 2017 6:21 pm

Hi
First, are there any fault codes? Second, which module did you replace? On this car there are two, the Power Module under the hood , and the Logic Module behind the passenger side kick panel which I believe you obviously found when you replaced the MAP sensor. Also understand that the '85 F.I. is stand alone major changes were made in '86! A critical item on these (First Generation Chrysler Bosch F.I.) are the engine and chassis grounds without good solid , clean grounds the logic module goes kinda wonky , you'll get random fault codes and terrible engine operation.
There is a ground strap attached to the intake manifold just below the throttle body which goes to the firewall , ensure the strap is in good shape & clean up both ends , also on the top of the intake manifold there is a harness ground , you'll see the ring terminal under a bolt head (drivers side of the throttle body) clean it & ensure its tight. Then clean the harness ground on the fenderwell behind the battery. Clean these to shiney and reattach securely. Also ensure that the harness connections going into the logic module are clean and dry. I've done this to cars that were driving other mechs nuts and it made a real difference.
Kwagon2
Car Fan
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:46 pm
Car Information: '82 Dodge Aries Wagon,'85 Plymouth Reliant SE

Re: Need some help

Postby cald600 » Wed May 17, 2017 9:47 pm

Thanks so much for the reply. Yes I checked the codes only one I have been getting is for the temp sensor. The module that I replaced was the one under the hood (power Module). I will check all the grounds, that is some good info never thought of that.
Also I was doing some looking on line on testing Ign Coil with a Multi meter Every site I have checked says that the OHMS at 20K should be 10.5 or greater. Mine registers at 8.6, but it is a new coil so I'm not sure if its bad or just cheap or normal. Have you heard anything about that? Does that sound right?

thanks
for all the help!!!!!
cald600
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:51 am
Car Information: D600 convertable

Re: Need some help

Postby Kwagon2 » Fri May 19, 2017 12:05 pm

Hi
When it comes to ignition coil resistance there is a fair leeway given ...considering that with so many turns on the secondary and the resultant net length of wire the resistance reading can become temperature dependent. Chrysler used a few different suppliers for their coils as well. Generally the "factory" coil resistances are about 1.4 to 1.6 on the primary and roughly 9k to 12.2 k for the secondary this would be at room temperature.
Frankly the ignition coil is the last item I would ever replace and in the 45 years that i've been actively working on cars I can safely say that I may have replaced very few coils! But in the few I have had to replace cracked coil towers have been the prime failure area. Dirt , corrosion , bad grounds , bad connections , worn through or deteriorated insulation have been the prime electrical bugaboos.....
Kwagon2
Car Fan
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:46 pm
Car Information: '82 Dodge Aries Wagon,'85 Plymouth Reliant SE

Re: Need some help

Postby cald600 » Sun May 21, 2017 2:19 pm

Thanks so much for the help, you have given me some things to check. Now if the rainy weather will ever break I can give them a try.
cald600
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:51 am
Car Information: D600 convertable

Re: Need some help

Postby cald600 » Tue May 23, 2017 1:43 am

Ok did some cleaning of the grounds. Still same problem. I really sat and worked with it and I have noticed when it shuts off. I have to wait to hear the fuel pump cycle again before it will start back up. I have looked in all my manuals an wire diagrams.... do these cars have a fuel relay? It almost acts like it would if it had a bad relay....
cald600
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:51 am
Car Information: D600 convertable

Re: Need some help

Postby Kwagon2 » Tue May 23, 2017 2:50 pm

Hi
I hate this question for the '84-'85 cars....Your car may or may not have a fuel pump relay (later on commonly referred to as the ASD relay) If you do its located just above the logic module on the passenger side of the dash board and its a PIA to get at. Generally by '85 the ASD relay became integral with the power module so If you don't have the relay then the fuel pump is powered directly from the Under hood Power module .
When you cycle the ignition switch after each shut down you should actually hear the pump activate ....its a one second shot to initially pressurize the fuel line to the injector....its immediate.
During cranking and then start the Logic module picks up the relay for a continuous pump run until the ignition switch is cycled to "off".
Kwagon2
Car Fan
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:46 pm
Car Information: '82 Dodge Aries Wagon,'85 Plymouth Reliant SE

Re: Need some help

Postby cald600 » Thu May 25, 2017 12:10 am

Ok, it does talk about the ASD in my shop manual. Although not the location, so thank you again I will try an see if I can't find a relay behind the dash. If it's in the power module what could make it keep shutting off the pump? Cause it's a new module but same problem the old one had.
cald600
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:51 am
Car Information: D600 convertable

Re: Need some help

Postby cald600 » Thu May 25, 2017 12:10 am

Ok, it does talk about the ASD in my shop manual. Although not the location, so thank you again I will try an see if I can't find a relay behind the dash. If it's in the power module what could make it keep shutting off the pump? Cause it's a new module but same problem the old one had.
cald600
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:51 am
Car Information: D600 convertable

Re: Need some help

Postby Kwagon2 » Thu May 25, 2017 1:18 pm

Hi
You have to realize that the Logic module does the "thinking" and the Power module is the "worker" Chrysler created two separate modules to prevent the electronic "noise" from high power switching interfering with the low power logic (Nor, Nand, Ands etc. ) circuits of the Logic Module. The Logic module has to "see" the crank /run signal in order to maintain the pump operation , failure to pick this signal up will result in no pump operation. You'll still get the one second shot but without a reliable distributor signal your goose is cooked! There may be a code 11 but if the sensor failed / wire broke and the Logic module was never "reset" from prior to the failure you may not have this code.
Regardless, the Hall effect pickup in the distributor is the responsible party ....The usual problem was the three wire connector exiting from it to a barrel style three terminal connector clipped to the splash shield of the distributor , a common problem was a fatigue wire break at the base of the connector ...distributor end or the wire harness end you had to check both.... However you said that you replaced the entire distributor so we can conclude that you have a new pickup in the distributor so you'll need to check the wire harness end connector ....(I should have thought about this earlier sorry) I'd like to add that at one time there were two types of pickups available from Chrysler one with a white plate and the other with a black pickup plate , the black one was the Hot ticket as it offered better resistance to Radio frequency interference....
Orig P/N 5213522. I'm not sure what is available in the aftermarket and I haven't checked with Chrysler to see whats still available.... I had a bit of a stash so that kept me out of the loop so to speak.....
Kwagon2
Car Fan
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:46 pm
Car Information: '82 Dodge Aries Wagon,'85 Plymouth Reliant SE

Next

Return to Info and Forum Help

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests