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Re: Need some help

Postby cald600 » Thu May 25, 2017 4:01 pm

I got a new code today thought I would just check again. I got a code 44 (battery Temp out of range) not sure what that means or if it is even relates.
Last edited by cald600 on Thu May 25, 2017 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need some help

Postby cald600 » Thu May 25, 2017 4:11 pm

OK the gentleman I bought it from said that he replaced distributor and all the wires and I looked at the distributor and the hall pick up. They looked fairly new, Is there a way to check with a ohms meter also another question would be A I S motor give me problems like this if that's bad?
Again thanks for the help you have been awesome.
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Re: Need some help

Postby Kwagon2 » Fri May 26, 2017 12:33 pm

Hi
Well....a code 44 isn't seen often or should I say wasn't seen often , the result of this code is a lock down of the charging volts to a solid 14volts, once the temp comes back into range the Logic module will regulate voltage again normally. High under hood temps , long periods of continuous cranking or sometimes a fast charge on the battery will set it off , the sensor is calibrated to "see" the ambient temp around the battery case. The sensor itself is located in the power module more on this in a bit. The AIS motor wouldn't be giving you the maladies you have right now...the AIS motor simply controls the size of the air bypass orifice around the throttle plate on cold starts and then down to normal engine temp & giving you a faster idle when required. There is an idle speed adjustment screw on the throttle body that sets primary idle speed with the engine at normal operating temp.
Now your question about the distributor pickup, no there isn't a really a definitive way to test this with an Ohmmeter, not like the pickups in the Earlier Chrysler Electronic ignitions(Lean burn,etc.) those where actual coils , this pickup is a semiconductor device. The wiring breaks I mentioned earlier are usually found when diagnosing bad engine performance (rough running like yours) or a downright "No-Start" condition. I'll wiggle the connector to see if I get any response, with a break at the base of the connector you'd get some action by holding the wire up and against the connector body and pushing slightly inward. I always had a spare pickup in my tool box for tests. Now back to the code 44 with this guy coming up I figure you have connectivity problems between the power module and the logic module as I can't see it happening unless you've been cranking the daylights out of your battery or cooking it with a charger which I'm sure you're not doing. You said that the Power module is new so the sensor can't be pooched.
So the key here as it appears to me is to check if you have a reliable connections from the engine inputs back to the Logic Module and from the Logic module up to the Power module.Once you can get the fuel flow up and reliable, remaining engine performance diagnosis will fall into line. These little cars are electrical beasts and many have been needlessly sent to the scrap heap because of electrical issues ....so lets keep going....
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Re: Need some help

Postby cald600 » Sun May 28, 2017 4:08 am

Well I picked up a new hall pick up just cause it wasn't that expensive. Still same problem...It's almost like a cycle the more I drive it. I start the car it stalls after the first 10 seconds, then starts right back up then runs for 20 min and stalls,starts a lil harder. Then drives longer maybe 30 minutes then stalls and really hard to start. To the point I get scared so I drive it straight home.
Ok also I was thinking about something that I just remembered. When I bought the car I drove it home about a 40 minute drive. Then drove for about a week but it had a ridiculous high idle. So I took the throttle body off and gave it a good cleaning. After that the idle was much better. But that's when the starling seemed to start. Also every time it does stall I can hear the throttle body cycle.
Another thought could a vacuum leak do this as well? Maybe It's leaking around the throttle body ..
Anyway I'll check the connections to the computers. Thanks again I'll keep ya posted.
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Re: Need some help

Postby cald600 » Sun May 28, 2017 10:13 pm

Another question to add on the car is in great shape body wise and everything else works on it. I can't get these gremlins figured out is there a way to convert it back to a carburetor with mechanical pump
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Re: Need some help

Postby cald600 » Mon May 29, 2017 10:20 pm

One more question the power module that I replaced....did it need to be programmed in anyway ?
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Re: Need some help

Postby Kwagon2 » Tue May 30, 2017 1:16 am

Hi
So what you’re saying is the initial problem all along was high idle speed??
Was it like that from the start or did the idle climb while you where driving it …it must have really hammered the trans when you put in gear …..not good!! Higher idle speed should only appear during a cold start, with the Air on to compensate for compressor load and if the engine temp rises to "hot".
Unless the throttle body was completely misadjusted the high idle would have been attributed to the AIS motor sticking etc. Man , I was heading off in a whole different direction …So I would say go back into the throttle body and check it all again , any time the throttle body is opened use a new o-ring and gasket kit mandatory! Ensure the AIS motor orifices are spotless. Ensure the vacuum hose to the fuel pressure regulator is snug and in good shape as in all the vacuum lines leading to and from the throttle body.
You’ve had it off before so I don’t think I need to explain the fuel system de-pressurization step.
The Throttle body "cycling" is no doubt the AIS motor trying to move to a position as dictated by the Logic module so I would take that as a good sign that the AIS motor may still be alive.

Now on to your other questions .... The power module does not require any special programming as long as the replacement matches the original module part number (the rebuilder should have referenced the Chrysler part number).
AS I stated before the power module is the "worker" the brains of the outfit is the Logic Module it also is part number specific.

It is possible to remove the fuel injection and revert to Carburetion but obviously you'll need the carb (A holley 5220 or 6520 for the 2.2) the correct spark control computer (note the Holley 6520 is the Electronically metered one that uses the O2 sensor input to the computer which in turn drives a metering solenoid in the carb) or you can go and get a Weber replacement https://www.webercarbsdirect.com/category-s/691.htm in which case you'll just need the spark computer for the 5220 carb which is straight mechanical , mechanical fuel pump and lines , modification of the fuel pickup in the tank with removal of the electric pump and appropriate wiring mods. I'm not sure about the intake manifold itself as they are all different part numbers but at the very least you'll need the carb spacer/isolator for the intake manifold and the brackets for the throttle cable,trans throttle pressure cable, cruise etc. Lets not forget the correct air cleaner assembly with brackets and so on..... The year of the car should make it exempt from emission testing so you can do whatever you want under hood (some states say 25 years and older) I'm guessing when I say you should be OK in that regard as I don't know what your situation is specifically.
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Re: Need some help

Postby cald600 » Wed May 31, 2017 1:41 am

Thanks for the reply. No the Idle has not been high the whole time. actually the idle is working well right now, just runs like poop. The idle was quite high when I first bought it. I did some research and found out that the AIS could cause that. So I took off the throttle body and cleaned the best I could with throttle body cleaner. Actually I could not get the big flat head screws to budge that held in the AIS. So I stopped trying in fear I would strip them So The AIS never came off the throttle body I just sprayed cleaner in side best I could. Replaced it back on the car and started it up... Idle did well after that but sounded like it was missing a lot of vibration (like poop). So I figured that I would work on that as I went along, like checking the timing with a timing light an so on.....
any way it started the stalling problem exactly like something is shutting off the fuel pump.
So you think maybe I should try and get a rebuild kit for the AIS? Would a bad AIS do something to tell the power mod to shut off the fuel pump?
I am sorry for all the questions... Actually I am bidding on scanner for old Chrysler vehicles, just to have and see if it can give me some more info.

Thanks
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Re: Need some help

Postby Kwagon2 » Wed May 31, 2017 1:18 pm

Hi
No sweat about the questions....I'm just trying to help you get to the problem and I'm shaking off some mental cobwebs in the process. Finding a kit for the AIS or even a new AIS motor for the early Chrysler/Bosch Fuel injection is a tough go ....I think Arizona Moparts mentioned he had some used ones ...but the device is pretty tough. There is no feedback from the AIS into the system ...it gets told what to do by the Logic module etc.
To reiterate, the fuel pump is actuated by the ASD relay which is picked up and maintained by sensing of the distributor pickup through the Logic module etc. After the initial 1 second shot the pump continues to run while the engine is cranked and then starts , if you stopped cranking and if the engine did not start the pump would not be actuated.
The Chrysler Scanner is handy (as I assume its the DRB / DRB 2 you're going for) by '85 Chrysler had made each component testable in the "actuator test mode" but full individual sensor tests were not made available until '86. A good publication to find is the Chrysler "test procedure manual" specific to the engine/vehicle you've got.
Back then I went with the OTC 4000 & upgraded later to the 4000 Enhanced which certainly did the trick.
However I've been thinking ....(it hurts but I do it on occasion) one component that could be a total pain is the EGR valve...if the valve is unseated or leaking (carbon buildup or wear) at idle, the engine will most certainly present with a terrible idle or chronic stalling etc. until the RPM came up ...the EGR is never actuated at idle or with the engine cold. I'd say at this point its worth a look. I would strongly suggest to use a penetrating fluid* around the bolts and once out re-install with new gaskets and use a high temp anti seize compound on the bolts. it might be easier to remove it with the tube but overall Its not a nice component to remove .....
* The Chrysler "Penetrating fluid" is great stuff , it used to be know as "manifold heat control valve solvent" and I found it to be superior to anything on the market as it was initially created to remove exhaust system deposits I think its still the same known up here as AUTOPAR VU 100 it may help if you decide to tackle the EGR .....
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Re: Need some help

Postby cald600 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:09 am

So is the EGR on the throttle body? Looks like a small round can?
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