MY CAR IS OVERHEATING. HEAD GASKET? Help.

[89ARIES]

Well, my car is now Alan the Overheater. The temp gauge has been acting weird lately and moving too fast when it comes down. Tonight, for the first time
in two weeks, the temp almost met the red zone, then came down. Here is the background and what is going on.

Head gasket rebuilt in 2004 at 66,000 miles. Car now has 140,000 miles. Ran on a 220 degree thermostat from 1988-2008. Ran on 180 degree
thermostat from 2008 to today.

May 2008: Took a 1,400 mile roadtrip to Sacramento. Evil mechanic messed with my cooling system. In 102, in Sacramento, the temp gauge starting
climbing all the way up to the H. Before it could get there, I pulled over immediately. Being auto stupid, my brother recommended we add oil. So, after
we let the car cool down, we went over to WalMart and added a quart or two of oil. I think we actually overfilled it with oil. Car was fine until we got home.
I kept to high speeds and drove along the coast and the temp gauge remained steady. On the climb out to Sacramento over the Grapevine, the temp guage
went up almost to the top and stayed there as we climbed 4000 feet on the freeway until we descended and it came down.
At home, after starting it up in the morning and driving a mere few miles, it starting overheating again. Took to the other family mechanic where
he tested compression and engine temp. Said he could find nothing wrong. He said the temp gauge must be malfunctioning and said he put a temp guage of
his own to the motor. He might have let the needle on the car temp guage hit the red 2 or 3 times. Not sure.

May 2008-August 2009: Fast forward 22,000 miles and 15 months later. Everything seemed to be fine. Never got over the fear of the car's temp guage. Watching it 90% of the time while driving. Noticed a few times that the needle might have surpassed 2/3 up to 4/5, even at night, before it came down. Happened maybe only a couple of times. Was beginning to feel confident my cooling system was fine. Admission of guilt: Had rarely checked the coolant. Just
opened the reservoir lid once or twice in the last year to see if the stuff was up to the min line when cool. Always checked the oil, but not enough and was
shortchanged by Jiffy Lube and discovered the oil to be 1.2 quart lower than the 5 quart limit in July. Added oil. Know for a fact the coolant is 15 months old
now.

Two weeks ago: Driving to the office from school. Temp was 85 degrees. When I got off the freeway, the temp guage started skyrocketing. I managed to get
the car to another "Jiffy Lube" type place before the needle hit the H. Seemed to wiggle in a fight between hitting the H or leveling off. I suggested a
bad thermostat. I was right. The guy showed me a totally broken thermostat. He replaced it and I went my merry way. After school, at night, the engine
started OVERHEATING again! This time, my brother and I checked all fluids and coolant overflowed onto the concrete. We thought maybe the system had
not been purged. After that, the car did start trying ot overheat until tonight. Did pick-up fresh coolant at WalMart and did not bother to add any as
the car seemed to be cooling adequately at 2/3rds and then coming down.

Wednesday, Sept 2, 2009: This car started overheating AGAIN! But, it was when the car was cold. I just finished class tonight and the car had been parked
for 5 hours. The temp started at the bottom, but before I could get on the freeway, the temp moved slowly and steadily up to the top. I managed to get a
few short blocks back to the school, looking for a place to pull over. Mind you the car has only been running 5-10 minutes. The needle went horizontal and
almost got up to the H, but then it leveled off and DROPPED down to 1/4. What the heck!? So, I turned off the car, turned it on again to see if I could
resimulate the overheating and see if I could hear what was happening. When the engine got that warm, I don't remember hearing the fan engage. Unless
I have the music on, I can hear the fan engage at idle. So, I tried idling and waiting, and the car would not get above 2/3. In fact, it acted normal. So, I checked the coolant reservoir in the car, and it was almost empty! I looked under the car, and could not find any spots of leaks. I filled the thing up to the MAX
line with the fresh coolant I had in my car, turned on the heater, and drove the car home tonight without incident.

Thoughts: Is my fan not engaging, is it wacko, why does the engine cool down faster at other times and not at others, why would it overheat while driving
and not at idle, totally confused and starting to get very distrustful of this cooling system. I can't drive without looking at this stupid guage 24 hours a day.
I am going to continue to drive this car until the repair meet on the 12th and see what happens. I am going to listen for sounds, keep the stupid music off, and see if maybe the fan fails to engage. Maybe its a defective fan? My car is plaqued with electrical gremlins. Could a fan stop working randomly like some electrical short?

Dilemma: Well, not really, but maybe. No tengo dinero (No money). What else is new. I won't go to a regular shop to have my car fixed. I don't trust most of
them. Plus, I want to save money and work on my own car. That's partly why I set up this repair meet. I am told a new headgasket as a part can be $120 while
a regular shop charged me $1300 to rebuild my headgasket in 2004. If you guys have any ideas, I am all ears. This car has been my only car and means
of transport since 2003. Honestly, I really can't afford to fix the car, but I could perhaps throw a few hundred at it. Otherwise, I am stuck with the credit card.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

[taxiguy]

Man, you really need to find another car and lay off this poor thing and give him a rest once in a while. The car is not going to last more than a couple more years (less maybe) at the high rate you seem to put on the miles. I really don't understand how some people drive so much, I never put more than 3000 miles a year on the vehicles I drive.

[1of10K]

Some thoughts.. If the thermostat has been changed with the correct one for your car, but the problem keeps coming back, either the thermostat was installed backwards (it can happen) or it is not the problem. If you have a bad head gasket, you should be seeing some evidence of coolant in your oil, under your oil filler cap, or different color smoke out the tailpipe, also a coolant smell too. How about a bad or more likely a badly worn water pump? It's impellers could be worn and not circulating the coolant fast enough thru the engine to cool it down. If the radiator/fan does not sense the super heated coolant, the fan may not run, as it dosen't sense the need to. The water pump may still look fine, with no leaks.

If there was an actual broken thermostat ( I have never seen one break), is it possible a small piece of water pump internal got in and damaged it? The small piece could be in a block coolant passage, limiting the flow, or in the bottom of your oil pan. When changing oil, before refilling, put a small piece of coat hanger in the oil plug hole and move it carefully around and see if you hit or find anything on the pan bottom. Oil sludge may keep some junk from coming out when the oil was drained. The junk may be aluminum and a magnet won't work for this. Maybe if not the water pump, maybe a small piece of internal block coolant passage casting residue moved around. Some shops have a machine that can power flush out your block, may be alot cheaper that replacing the head gasket and having the same problem come back..

Just some ideas,.. hope everything gets fixed and running right...

[88 aries]

oil mixed with water indicates a bad head gasket, and by the way it sounds, your headgasket has gave up the ghost, time for a new one, or do what taxiguy said, retire the car for show or something like that.

Defenately dont continue to drive it everyday not unless you want a Dead K-car

[Butch]

Time to do the headgaket slip and slide boogie. Guy, I have to proper test equipment for checking the head gasket. What happen is the gaket blows out at # 1 cylinder which causes ex. gases to enter the cooling sys. In the 11 yrs and 1/4 millions miles I put on the original motor in my car, I've done the slip and slide boogie 5 times. The problem was cheap ass gasket material that has now been upgraded. When Joe Blow mechanic looks at your car, he sells you a complete valve job ( just ask Taxiguy ) . He does this for 2 reasons, 1, it is the proper thing to do and covers his ass by doing it. 2, to make a buck. Listen to me and me ONLY, for now remove the thermostat and loosen the rad cap. Carrie alot of water with you. Stay OFF the freeway. By removing the thermostat the eng. doesn't have time to get hot as the coolant is circulating right from eng. start up. Loosening the rad cap will prevent presure in the cooling system and prevent boiling. I said this B4, these cars are WAY TO EASY TO FIX. I'll call you.

[turbokcar]

I talked to him last night about this being the head gasket. This is not the end of the world, I suggested he change the gasket, MAYBE the head bolts, I didn't tell him, but a timing belt. When my head gasket went, I drove around with the rad cap loose too, and if you have a long trip, take the bus.
I have one more idea Guy, stay away from your last mechanic.

[88 aries]

and to top it off buy a mopar performance headgasket, ive heard that they last forever (a long time)

[89ARIES]

Well, Butch came out this afternoon and did a band-aid fix for my car. It is no longer overheating. It seems whatever may be cracked must be very minor, as no fluids are mixing as of yet.
More than likely, its just the gasket, or maybe at worst the head. I don't see how the block could be cracked as I really would have had to run hot for a very long time. The car seems to run
the same, no rough idle, and no water or steam. He took out thermostat and added water. I also have the REC on 24-7 to keep the fan on. I am seriously considering not using a thermostat ever again
in this warm climate, unless I really have to. I never gets colder than 30 here for the year. I don't want to see any more fluctuating guage. I am not out of the woods yet. Also, the head gasket that was put on in 2004 76,000 miles ago was a Felpro one. Also, I had everyone on me today in the office jumping on me about my car and giving me their scientific opinions, even my boss's mechanic. My boss's mechanic spooked me by saying the block was more than likely cracked and my car was worthless at 140,000 to repair and probably had worn out rings. Impossible, as this car does not burn oil I hope. Right now, I am feeling a negative about the whole thing and wish I knew what started causing this car to overheat in the first place. I tried to maintain things, but I guess I failed. I definitely want to go heavy duty and I am not taking any more chances.

[Butch]

Obviously your boss's mechanic is NOT familiar with the HIGH nickel content 2.2, 2.5 blocks these cars have. At 140 K these blocks are just starting to break in. Don't you just love it when someone shoots their mouth off about something they don't know shit about. I'm REALLY,REALLY,REALLY gonna enjoy making this guy EAT HIS WORDS. Lets see if he'll put his money where his mouth is. Head gasket boogie scheduled for Sat. 9-5-09 at John Laing's house at 7:45. sharp.